Cym. i'ansonii

[MrCym]

Unlike the RHS Kool-Aid drinkers, we know that this "species" is not in fact a species but a lowianum hybrid.... Not sure what with but definitely not a form of lowianum as espoused by Cribb and Co. Totally different bulb morphology and spike habit, not to mention flower size and color.

While nobody has had any interest in the orchid, we have been quietly (yes, I know you may find that comment unbelievable!) making hybrids from it and we have yet to bloom a disappointing one. One line that we are sure will be most useful is the tetraploid true Ceres 4n offspring.

We have been very busy with Cym. i'ansonii of late and look forward to all sorts of ground-breaking late Spring hybrids in the near future. We MUST produce a wider and better selection of potted Cyms that bloom reliably for the end of April so as to better supply the huge Mother's Day market in blooming orchids. No need to leave it all to the Phalaenopsis producers!

There you are "BIB", a tip for you! Disappointed with your Easter cut flower sales?? Heard you were undercut by about 50% in the Hilo market last Saturday and had to "eat" a heap of spikes. Competition is such a good thing!

[kamuela]

Andy, what about Cym. cooperi? Is it a varietal form of insigne? Keith always labeled it as "cooperi syn. J. Davis". Bulbs and leaves are a bit different from insigne but of course the spike is very insigne-like. Cym. J. Davis is insigne x schroederi. I see 23 F1 hybrids listed in OrchidWiz. Among them is Ralph Sander (x Pauwelsii, 1926) and Vivien Hainsworth (x devonianum 1982). Keith made VH and thought it was a breakthrough hybrid. I am beginning to think the same. He used it to make Petticoat Lane and I've recently had my first PL hybrid bloom and it is a corker. Also I was interested to see that Mark Pendleton made cooperi x Golden Elf in 1993. On top of it all, when I researched cooperi in OrchidWiz it showed it to be syn. with Cym. glebelandense (Rolfe 1911). The strange thing is that Rolfe also claimed cooperi in 1914! No mention of either insigne or schroederi.

[Gary S]

Wow, we going back into past history with this one.

Gary..

[MrCym]

Let's forget about Cym. i'ansonii for a moment. I know plenty about Cooperi 'Plush', I brought it to the USA and all the stock here can be traced back to pieces from my plant. Coincidentally, Bill Bailey selfed it, of all things, and what was extremely significant is the seedling of the selfing I saw, was a genetic alba and looked VERY like Cym. insigne. Henry Tanaka asked me specifically for a piece of that plant when he retired from Dos Pueblos, he loved it! So all the J. Davis, Glebelanense stuff may be mumbo jumbo, it may just have been an insigne. To be honest, I never saw any Schroederi in the plant known as Cooperi 'Plush'. I made hybrids with Cooperi 'Plush' and also our varied collection of genuine insignes and never could discern any difference in the progeny made from the same pollen, eg devonianum.

[MrCym]

Something else to remember.... so many Cyms are mislabelled, especially in Australia where so-called species appear in every state. Not to duck the issue, as David Banks pointed out so well in a recent AOR, the Californian chattering set awarded a wrongly-named Australian variety a few years back too so there is plenty of blame to go around. Then there are all the natural hybrids appearing under phony names from China. I am told, on excellent authority, that Cyms found in Laos or N. Vietnam for example are smuggled across the Chinese border and "discovered " in China because wealthy collectors from China will pay much more for a Chinese species! And I have spent nearly 15 years correcting twits and con-artists trying to pass off the natural hybrid Lowgrinum, as some new "species" called Baoshanense. As P T Barnum said.....

[kamuela]

Incorrect labeling, registration and species identification have, without a doubt, caused a nightmare in trying to sort out hybrid lines. Rolfe didn't help matters by identifying cooperi as a separate species. Certainly there are many variations within species groups. Goeringii, for example. Honestly, I don't think Keith really thought cooperi was anything but a variation of insigne. But there are marked differences in plant structure and flower type between Vogelsang (insigne x devonianum) and Vivien Hainsworth (cooperi x devonianum). And those differences carry through in each line's progeny. Keith recoginized this. I suppose we could find another hybrid to compare, like insigne x Golden Elf (Tapioca Tundra) made by Orchids Limited (1997) and Pendleton's cooperi x Golden Elf to see if there are similar marked differences.

It seems if we wonder what really is behind Ceres (insigne x i'ansonni) or Brugense (insigne x J. Davis), our heads will start spinning. Whether or not i'ansonni is this or that, or J. Davis is this or that, or even what species type was used when an old hybrid was first registered (assuming it was accurately recorded), our speculation at some point becomes futile.

An essential point I've picked up on when I've had in-depth discussions with orchid hybridizers is, in my opinion, that there are two intellectual approaches towards structuring a potential "advantage". Those who seize on perceived differences and those who focus on the similarities of how sets of parents breed.

[Albert Nakaji]

There you are "BIB", a tip for you! Disappointed with your Easter cut flower sales?? Heard you were undercut by about 50% in the Hilo market last Saturday and had to "eat" a heap of spikes. Competition is such a good thing!

I must get out more often. I so very rarely go to the Hilo market that I don't have a clue about what things there are selling for, much less who is selling what. We go to that market maybe 4 times a year, and only for certain fruits or veggies when other suppliers are out. Orchid plants at farmers' markets here sell for so little that I don't look at them anymore, so that I don't get upset. It wouldn't surprise me if the people around here would ask for discounts even if blooming plants were selling for $1/each.

[Albert Nakaji]

I have spent nearly 15 years correcting twits and con-artists trying to pass off the natural hybrid Lowgrinum, as some new "species" called Baoshanense.

Bob, I won't ask how many of those people you were able to "convert", as they probably know it's not a new species. Either that, or they don't want to know that it's not a new species. If they did know that what you were telling them is correct, they would either have to lie to their customers or sell for a much lower price than a new species brings. Neither of those two options is appealing.